Combat Stats

[Kether Rowan]

Is there, or is there not, a valid reason for monsters to be dealing damage far beyond their attack power? We're talking 50+ damage hits: and I know, even in the home server's beta, that the attack power on monsters other than the Dragon can not exceed 37 against me.

I've heard, that there's been a 'critical armour failure' that's been installed, but as of yet I havn't been able to find it in the code, and if that's the case, why does it occour so much more often than Power Moves?

[Moonchilde]

The bell curve generator that MightyE installed allows things to go above *OR BELOW* the normal range available but only a very small percentage of the time.

I suspect that the curve might be a bit too steep and that it's hitting the high (or low) points of the curve more often than it should if you are truly seeing what you say.

MightyE will have to comment on that for sure though.

[Sneakabout]

In truth, any increase in randomness favours the monsters. (they only have to be lucky once) However, I don't see this as a bad thing, as combat isn't meant to be predictable. I'd say that the damage feels right, even if it means that I sometimes get beaten by Farmboys...

[Moonchilde]

Actually a bell curve generator actually *reduces* randomness slightly.

Means that the bulk of the results are toward the center of the curve and taper off as you reach the outliers.

[Kether Rowan]

A 'very small percentage' isn't what I'm seeing. It's more like once every 10-12 rounds, I get mauled for huge damage.

[Moonchilde]

A 'very small percentage' isn't what I'm seeing. It's more like once every 10-12 rounds, I get mauled for huge damage.

This sounds like something MightyE needs to look into because I don't understand the bell curve generator he wrote (I probably could, I just haven't picked it apart yet :))

[Kether Rowan]

Well, I hope he looks into it soon, because this is what it did to me this morning. This if nothing else, is quite an unfair amount of damage to see for a 7th level Prince:

Level: 7
Start of round:
The Government's Hitpoints: 24
YOUR Hitpoints: 45
You try to hit The Government but are RIPOSTED for 6 points of damage!
The Government hits you for 34 points of damage!
End of Round:
The Government's Hitpoints: 24
YOUR Hitpoints: 5


In one round, I lose 1/3 of my Hit Points. That should not happen, it's cheap, that simple. I got lucky and managed to run on the first attempt, but it still wasted a fight I was clearly winning, and 350 gold in healing.

[LadyPhoenix]

Well, it WAS the Government... :shock:

(Just kidding.)

It's been so long since 34hp would have been 1/3rd of my level that I have no idea how hard monsters are hitting now. Monsters at 34DKs are an entirely different magnitude of pain, but that only makes it fair.

[Kether Rowan]

Monsters at 15 DKs are no picnic, I'm purposely keeping my HP down a little to make better use of my Phoenix. 133 HP at 6th level is still quite a lot, though, and really about equal to what could be gained through 15 DK points, not that I got them that way. When you know the attack rating on the monster couldn't exceed 21, if all it's DK points were put into attack, yet it does 34 in a strike, the bell_rand is a bit unbalanced. I don't even Power Move for that high untill around 12th even Doubles barely hit the mid-30s at 10th.

This was a very extreme case, yes, but I consistantly encounter exceedingly disgusting damage from monsters as of late. I realize I'm a fairly high DK player, but not that high. When my Attack nears 34, then a monster with half my DK points might be justified in doing close to that much damage on occasion, not drastically more every 10-12 rounds, and not when I'm far too weak to be expected to handle that.

[Twist]

To clarify the "critical failure", you can see the percentages in the weapon and armor shops on mightye.org, but it hasn't been turned on yet. It basically starts at the weapon/armor 2 levels above your current level, and increases by 10% up to 100%. So if you had a level 10 weapon at level 5, it would have (10-5)-1 = 40% chance of failure. So weapon/armor up to one level above your current level has 0% chance of failure.

[Booger]

so is this critical failure on at the moment? and is it causing those big hits?

while it seems reasonable that you get a penalty for using a weapon that is "too good for your skills" the % seems too high to me.

one of the bigger advantages of having more DKs is that you don't have to upgrade equipment every (or even every 2-3) levels. that way you can save up money and buy a weapon several levels above yours and it will last you for a good while. at the moment I normally upgrade my weapon and armor 3 times / DK.

you can upgrade to lvl 15 weapon and/or armour around lvl 10-11 pretty easily even without bounties. that would mean 30 - 40 % of my attacks and defenses will be a critical failure. let's say an average forest fight lasts for 6 rounds. in those 6 rounds I would have 6 attacks and 6 defenses and of those 12 actions 4 or 5 would be critical failures.

I don't know what the effect of these failures really is or if they are even turned on on the server I play on but taking a 20 - 30 point hit 4 - 5 times in a fight is a lot and you will have to heal just about after every fight.

and yes, I have seen several 20+ hits in a fight (in the forest and PVP).

[Hammer]

Hold the phone...

We are/are going to be penalized for having better weapons?

So is it going to work in reverse? Better chance of power moves/critical hits for weaker weapons?

[Twist]

I'm pretty sure it hasn't been activated anywhere yet. I think he just put the percentages on mightye.org to give us an idea of what he was considering. I agree that it seems like a large percentage, and I'm not sure if I like the idea.

[Sneakabout]

It might somewhat explain the hit for 69 damage from Father Time that I got recently....

[Kether Rowan]

The Critical Failure percentage was something that MightyE and I had discussed in the past to help put a limit on camping/landmining. (Staying at low level intentionally to build up for top equipment.)

My thought on it though, is installing a maximum number for attack and defense dependant on level and DK points. Say, even if you had 15th level gear at level 4, it would only add 6 points to the appropriate stat, instead of 15.

[Booger]

I don't really like limiting the benefits for the higher end weapons that hard. how about a diminishing benefit from the better weapons? that way it would still be worth something to save up for a weapon 3 or 4 levels above yours and you'd get some benefit for them before you leveled.

for example player gets (charlevel + 2) / weaponlvl for each level of the weapon (1 if it's above one).

level 2 char would get the following benefit for each weapon level
4 / 1 => 1
4 / 2 => 1
4 / 3 => 1
4 / 4 = 1
4 / 5 = 0,8
4 / 6 = 0,667
4 / 7 = 0,571
4 / 8 = 0,5
4 / 9 = 0,444
4 / 10 = 0,4
4 / 11 = 0,364
4 / 12 = 0,333
4 / 13 = 0,308
4 / 14 = 0,286
4 / 15 = 0,267

that would be 2 + 8,94 attack skill with a lvl 15 weapon.

[Hammer]

I disagree completely with penalizing people for having better weapons. That's like offering negative bonuses for killing the dragon. However, I do believe that there should be a limit on the level weapon someone can buy. Instead of penalizing for buying a better weapon, wouldn't it just be easier to say Player X is level 1, therefore he cannot buy a weapon that is over level 3. Simply make the code check for a player's level in the weapon shop, then gray out any weapon 2 levels over the character's current level.

[LadyPhoenix]

I agree with Hammer on this one. It seems entirely silly to penalize something you're allowing a player to buy after all. If you don't want players using level 15 weapons at level one just set it up so that weapons of that level aren't even available to purchase.

Personally, I feel if someone wants to take 50 game days to get to level 5 because they are saving up to buy good weapons, they should be allowed to.

[Sneakabout]

Don't forget that on central, the only way that the poor farmies can survive is to buy the best weapons...