The Level 1 Curse

[Zarlox]

It's getting worse and worse... seems I can't even attack level 1's anymore without the fear of getting killed in one round (see below). Some days I don't even feel like playing because level 1 is so "un-fun". So for those of you who are pre-Dragon Master level... enjoy it while you can.

http://gongadealz.com/zarlox051707.png

[Lauri]

A lot of that is the 499 hitpoints you started with =/

Your hitpoints determine the ripostes. I think.

[XChrisX]

Not quite...

But his high hitpoints make the enemies attack/defense higher...

[RichPlaystation]

I never usually have any trouble anymore :S I have well over 400 hp and nearly 600 dk's.

[Zarlox]

Actually, the strength of the forest creatures is determined by an equal combination of the points spent on Attack, Defense, and HP (see the "buffbadguy" function located at line 89 in the forestoutcomes.php file of the 1.0.6 code). I'm getting riposted like crazy because I have about 600 dragon points spent in those three categories. So I'm pretty much screwed. But sometimes you gotta pay the cost to be the boss. ;)

[RichPlaystation]

I hear you on that one buddy ;)
How many DK's you got now then exactly?

[Zarlox]

654. Here's the top on Classic:
http://gongadealz.com/hof051807.png

[Talisman]

Yeah, that's been a long-time beef of mine and I think it was accentuated a long while back when JT made a couple changes. It's fine at all other levels, but level 1 seems to be a real challenge for high DK players.

[Shiqra]

Hmmm - maybe a reallocation of a few points to FFs? I am now VERY curious to see if I can manage as well as I do now when I reach Dragon Mistress. The only drawback is the insane number of turns I have. I could play each day in shifts, but I am usually killed within minutes of logging out - I'd have to calulate gains vs losses to see if it would be worth it. But I don't think Zarlox has that to worry about so much...

[Zarlox]

Yeah, I thought about reallocating some points into FFs. The problem is I am limited on time, and I already have 80+ FF each day. If I had twice that, it would take twice as long, and I'm unable to dedicate that much time each day. So I've been trying to figure out a way to spend my dragon points in AT/DE/HP and still have fun doing my turns. It's not really working out.

[X-Kal]

Yup, I started having my first level 1 problems around the time I got to ~130-140DKs myself. I know there's a better solution than the one I'm using, but level 1 does make it difficult for me to pull as much fun out of the game. If I'm level 3, I just jump in and take care of things like natural. Then I hit level 1 again... and I'm idle for a week :-P

[Stormkitten]

*hits L1 again*
*dies after about 4 fights*
*sighs*
*wanders off for another couple of weeks to get the energy to attack level 1*

[RichPlaystation]

Oh actually, are you all on Classic server? me being on Dragoncat might be making the difference.

[Valancy]

Zarlox is on Central, as is X-Kal... and I believe Stormkitten is as well. So yeah, that's your difference I guess.

[RichPlaystation]

Aw i'm all alone :(
I don't think Dragoncat is overly easier or anything, but my character set up and mount e.t.c might be making it easier for example.

[DarkMaster]

level 1 is a real pain on Dragoncat as well i usually die every other dk on L1 and if im really unlucky twice

[RichPlaystation]

Ah right so it IS just me then :P Heh, as long as we have worked out that out server isn't just easier for everyone.

[Shiqra]

I was wondering, Zarlox, if playing your day in 30 to 40 turn shifts would work for you. That way you can add more FFs to your build, which will really help with Level 1. I am ~170 DKs and only have a little trouble at level 1 - mostly because I thrillseek through it, and level 3s can be quite nasty at level 1. If you are not getting PvPed as soon as you log out, that might be a viable solution for you. Just an idea, and one I will be trying once I get to your level. I am not sure how I will do it in the meantime. I am too easy of a kill and get pounced on as soon as I log.

And yeah - I think everyone who has responded to this post is from Central - er Classic - except for Darkmaster, Rich and maybe XChrisX.

[kickme]

Chris is from lotgd.de

I have problems at level one, and I only have 8 dks. Those level 2 creatures are a pain.

[Lauri]

The thing is, the game isn't meant to be easy, or you'd all be very bored.

The other creature is made up by looking at your stats and mixing the balance up a bit, but essentially when you encounter anything at any level it's approximately your strength. It might have 22 attack and you have 20, but then it will have 18 defense, or a few hitpoints less than you, etc.

Plus, there is the chance for a monster to be one level stronger (or weaker). It's these random chances that are dangerous. At level 15 it hardly counts, because even if it's one level stronger that's only 1/15th better than you. But at level 1, it can be twice your size when it's one "level" stronger.

So if you were wondering why level 1 is so hard sometimes and level 15 so easy...

[ThricebornPhoenix]

The thing is, the game isn't meant to be easy, or you'd all be very bored.

Hmm, but if eventually you can't even stand up against enemies your own level, isn't that a problem?

So if you were wondering why level 1 is so hard sometimes and level 15 so easy...

I understand how that works, but it does seem counterintuitive - the start of the journey is usually the easiest part. I wonder how the difficulty can be adjusted more evenly.

[Lauri]

Well, fairly it can't, unless you add the option for level 30 monsters at level 15 ;D

It might be an option to examine making the odds of a stronger monster at level 1 very, very short. Not non-existent but less common. And similarly, the tougher guys should appear more often at level 15.

[X-Kal]

Well, my case is partially due to... humm, I think this might be a spoiler coming up. Highlight below.

Among other things, I have a very strong mount that, to my knowledge, gets stronger as I gain levels. It becomes especially powerful when I'm level 10 and up, but not so strong at level 1. For me, level 1 is a bear, 2-4 are managable, and everything over 5 is a cakewalk.

My issue has always been in finding a balance between performance and actual time length of game days. If I want to play the most efficiently, then I will be online for four hours a day. Since I'm working at New Day time, that strategy no longer works out so well...

[Mess]

/me maintains a farmie build relative to DK count.

No threat at level one. Considerable safety against level two creatures (there are some near death experiences, but hey!). Have to watchout for creatures who go slumming in the forest These would be the level three critters. Sometimes luck works in my favor in this case. Most times it does not. ;)

Ah, I did change my ways lately in order to finish off one dragon on a daily basis. Its not the level one curse, really.

[Shiqra]

I would have to agree with Mess about a lack of curse, although I don't know if Mess is a big PvPer or not. It seems that the easier the Forest is , the harder is PvP. I could not PvP if I wanted to. But on the other hand, I have little trouble at Level 1; I just need to pay closer attention at first and second level, and keep my mount fed. I thrillseek from the first moment I wake up from a dragon kill until I kill Her again. Maybe there is some magic middle ground build that allows one to both PvP successfully and take on same-level enemies in the Forest at Level 1. 'Twould be the Holy Grail of LotGD...

[Mess]

Ahem, I kill players twice as strong as me </brag>

A PVP fight, unlike forest fight, does not offer one a badguy balanced according one's own stats. So, PVP is only a matter of looking up stats and going for it.

[Furion]

Or not looking up the stats, as the case may be :)

[DarkMaster]

Shiqra, i play on central as well as Dragon cat but i only have 109 DK's on there so level one isn't that much of a problem but on Dragoncat i have 514 and my playstyle and point allocation is different

[Stormkitten]

@Lauri - it's not the stronger monsters showing up that are an issue, it's the very real chance of being riposted to death by a L1 critter. There is no way to slum at L1, maybe there could be?

[DarkMaster]

but doesn't slumming put you face to face with a critter one level below you, is it possible to have a level 0 critter

[RichPlaystation]

I wouldn't have thought level 0 would make sense, they would have near nothing stats and therefor be worth little to no exp or gold/gems for beating them, much like
*spoiler* Lonliness at level 17 *end spoiler*

[kickme]

Except you'll get a nasty division by zero error (:

[Shiqra]

Oooooh - to infinity and beyond!!!! Or worse, undefined...

[ThricebornPhoenix]

Well, fairly it can't, unless you add the option for level 30 monsters at level 15 ;D

Well, I was thinking mechanics-wise. 11 ripostes out of 14 total attacks seems high. How much more powerful would the enemy have to be to do that (and at level 1!)? Seems like maybe too much.

[Qwyxzl]

Well, I was thinking mechanics-wise. 11 ripostes out of 14 total attacks seems high. How much more powerful would the enemy have to be to do that (and at level 1!)? Seems like maybe too much.

The issue is not really how much more powerful the creature is. It has to do with the way the monsters DK points are allocated. If it gets most of its points in def You get riposted a lot. Combine that with a large number of attacks in a round and, for a lot of high DK players, relatively low HP you tend to die when this happens. I know for myself that most of my deaths take the form of being riposted to death in a single round.

[ThricebornPhoenix]

I actually looked at that code earlier for an unrelated reason, heh. That would explain the randomness, I suppose... interesting. It looks like this distrubution could be extremely uneven - in fact, all of the bonus could be added to one stat? :-| I would have expected the maximum portion for any one stat to be capped at about 1/2 to 2/3 of the total.

[X-Kal]

Darn, I wish I actually payed more attention to how I die. It's just one of those things where I get semi-frustrated and put the game away when I die :-P

Besides, hanging out with cool people on IRC sure beats being dead on LotGD! :D

[Merel]

The level one curse sort of balances out how much easier it is in the higher levels. I'm totally used to it now.

[kickme]

It's starting to affect me now.

And I totally want breakfast now (;

[DarkMaster]

Dreads level one now as i get riposted to death at least twice

[Penguin Fred]

I haven't been riposted to death lately on level 1. It is usually is just a massive hit from nowhere that will take me out instantly.
65% of my DK points are all in defense and I was hoping they would protect me better than that.

[DarkMaster]

has just been riposted to death on my first forest fight of the day and cant survive level one at all anymore i seem to die at least twice now..

[RichPlaystation]

I've got more DKs and it still happens to me now and then, so don;t feel too bad :D

Though for some reason, I seem to having more trouble at level 3 lately :S Wierd.

[Penguin Fred]

Oh great- it is spreading! The level 3 curse!!!

3X's as bad! :-)